Switching sides and crossing borders: the power of mobility with Isadora Talamo and Juan Pablo Puerto Reyes

Anna Weiss
(00:03)
Everyone who's been part of Kennedys, whether you're with us now or have moved on, has helped shape the firm into what it is today. Whether your time here was brief or spanned many years, you remain an important part of our story. I'm Anna Weiss, Global Relationship Development Director at Kennedys, and this is the Kennedys Alumni Network podcast. Today, we're talking about careers that don't fit neatly into one box or one country, because in a global firm, your path might take you from Bogota to Madrid, Brazil to London and beyond, or from private practice to in-house and across borders. 
Today, I'm joined by Juan Pablo Puerto Reyes, an alumnus from our Latin American corporate practice and now General Counsel at Grupo Ingenium Tecnología in Madrid, and alumna Isadora Talamo, formerly based in our London office and now Product Counsel at Sompo in Barcelona. Two Kennedys alumni who built truly fascinating careers overseas to explore what you gain and what you have to overcome when you move across borders and between sectors and how those experiences then shape the kind of lawyer and leader that you become. 
So welcome everyone to the podcast. I'd like to start with your journeys, where it all began and what brought you to where you are now. So Isa, if I may start with you, let's learn a little bit about how you arrived at Kennedys and then where your journey took you.

Isadora Talamo
(01:43)
Thank you, Anna. Thank you for having me. I'm from Brazil. I'm a qualified lawyer in Brazil. And I started working in the insurance market when I was at uni in Brazil. After more or less three years, I was at Aon in Brazil and Aon offered me a position in London. I moved to London in 2010 as a reinsurance broker. After a couple of years, I was missing the legal world and I decided to take the long path and went to uni in London to become a qualified solicitor in England and Wales. In 2016, I moved to Kennedys in London, Israel,  and I stayed there for almost five years. Though in New York and also in Kennedys, my focus was Latin America. After almost five years at Kennedys, I moved to an in-house position in the London market. And after a year, I moved to an in-house position in Barcelona. So now I'm based in Barcelona and I'm product developer as you mentioned.

Anna
(02:48)
Yeah, it's been a really interesting career path. And I remember when you first joined Kennedys and all the hard work you put into qualifying as an English qualified lawyer. And I think that multi-jurisdictional experience that you have between Brazil and London really helped you in the work that you did with us. And it was always a pleasure working with you, Isa, on the cases we had across border.
And likewise, Juan, working with you as well on some of the initiatives we had when we were working together in Latin America. Perhaps you can also give us your career history, how you arrived at the firm and then what you've now gone on to do.

Juan Pablo Puerto Reyes
(03:25)
Yes. Hello. And it's a pleasure to be here. And thank you very much for inviting me. When I was finishing uni, I decided I wanted the law firm work. I think it was an interesting place to work. then I think further on, we'll talk about the difference between the different type of work you do when you're working in-house and where you're working at a law firm. But I decided I think it's more exciting. And I think it could be more interesting applying to a law firm and I decided to work on law firms and the commercial practice. And then by chance, this commercial practice ended up being M&A practice. And I had the opportunity of working in some law firms in Colombia, which I'm really grateful with, if they're listening. And I decided like this M&A practice for me was really interesting because it just like gave me like this idea of perhaps like an international practice. So, so there are certain areas I believe that are international practices. So M&A for me is one of those standardized global terms cross border your transactions as well. So I thought this is going to be, this is path that I wanted to go down or a road I want to go down. And so I started working at law firms. I started doing M&A practice and then I decided I wanted to have a try at the public sector. So I went working to the public sector, kind of like ticking the boxes of places to work.

Anna
(04:58)
Brilliant. So I think it definitely, brings up quite a few points. mean, I think certainly for all of us who've had that time in a law firm, gives you a good foundation and a good awareness of what the opportunities are in different areas of the law. And what's interesting about your two career paths is, Juan, you focus then more on the corporate sort of in the M&A path, which, know, Kennedys traditionally did not do so much of that type of work. think we're known more widely for our insurance practice, which probably is what attracted Isa to Kennedys. But then now Isa is also doing not so much on the claims and the dispute side, but more on the corporate and commercial side, but within an insurer. So it has been an interesting path, I think, for both of you in terms of what you've gathered and gained from being part of a global law firm and then moved on.
Can I ask you a question about just how was it to transition from a personal level? Like what took you to London, Isa? What took you to Madrid, Juan? And I know that you spent time in the Bogota office, then the Madrid office. So we can explore a little bit about the reason for your moves to those different countries. And then also how did it feel to settle in those different countries? Was it easy or was it challenging from a personal perspective? So Isa, do you want to go first? 

Isadora 
(06:20)
Yes, sure. Well, I think the good thing on the insurance market is how international is this market. Then being in London is like a great experience, you know, is the hub for the insurance market, but it's very different from Brazil, I would say. Like, at first, like it's a face-to-face market, you know, you need to discuss face-to-face with all underwriters. When you are a broker, you need to visit them. they appreciate that. 
I left London in 2022 during the pandemic, but I believe it's still like that, the face-to-face. And of course, like the British/English was a challenge. But I think, although it's a challenge, like cultural things, like many things are different from Brazil, but I was quite open to face all of this challenge and to improve my career. So definitely like I was professionally shaped by the London market, which was great. At the same time that being a lawyer is not an easy profession to become international because you have like different legal systems, different frameworks, different regulations. So I think the challenge was to understand all this. I was basing the Latin American team for Aon and then for Kennedys.
It is not like that everything is the same, so every single country is different. So we need to understand, we need to learn with our colleagues locally and also like with our clients, we need to learn how to deal with each, like which country and each regulation. So this was very challenging, but it very important. as who I mentioned, I always thinking about to move abroad, to have an international career, but then suddenly I end up in the insurance market was not planning, but you know, was a great opportunity and being London, moved to London was great because it's a great hub. And then you can meet people from all over the world.

Anna
(08:28)
So diverse, there's so many international opportunities. And we should talk as well about Spain, but before we do that, I know, Juan, you also spent a little bit of time in London in your career path as well. Maybe you want to share a little bit about that and then what took you from Bogota to Madrid?

Juan 
(08:48)
Yeah, sure. Well, I ended up in London because I decided I wanted to do a master's degree. And this was like on 2010. And in 2010, you have like all the fallback of the 2008 financial crisis. then I thought that like that's like a really interesting subject to analyze from a legal perspective. Personally, my dad worked on finance, so he was like, like knowledgeable about those issues. And so I was curious about this is like an interesting topic to see on the legal side. So basically, my rational was if you're going to study finance law, there are two places you can study finance law, the financial hubs of the world. You can go to the US, to New York, or you can go to London and study it. So I decided I wanted to apply to do a master's degree in London. And for me, it was like this life changing experience because this is, it's not an experience that, well, helps you like academically and everything, but also like in the way you see life, the way you start getting in touch with different people, different cultures. 
London is an amazing city that has an option for everything and for everyone. And then I came back to Columbia and started like the corporate practice in law firms. So then I go into the public sector. finish their really, really interesting job and really grateful for the opportunity. And then I, I entered Kennedys and Kennedys first thing I received is like this global perspective. since moment one, I was in Bogota office and for the corporate and commercial practice, I, you can say that I was not only thinking about Columbia, but I was thinking about the region, about LATAM. So that was like really interesting, really interesting way of understanding how a firm works because it was something that I haven't been aware of, to be honest. As long as you grow in the law firm world, start like, like different doors starts to open and you see like different chapters and different, different things in there. 
And then I ended up in Spain and it might sound cheesy, like following the heart because my wife got transferred to Madrid. Yeah. Fast forward and get married and, and then, and then I ended up here in Madrid and at the Kennedys office. Same way as thinking of LATAM, thinking of expanding. that's for me, for me, Kennedys are, they have been the stepping stones in my professional career for this global practice. So, so this was like really interesting and it's funny how, you start thinking about the past and how every thought like connect, like you start understanding things or things, things differently. 
So that's how I ended up here in Madrid, like with a personal decision, a really personal intimate decision of coming to live with my wife here to Madrid and then trying to work my professional world, the life around it, around that decision.

Anna
(11:49)
Congratulations too, because this is something that is important and we don't always talk about it at work, but prioritizing your own personal journey and your family life has got to be the heart of a lot of the decisions we make. And so I loved that you had the ability to take your career to Madrid and to do that. And from there, you actually, I remember you set up the LATAM desk out of the Madrid office, which was great because obviously there's a lot of connectivity between Spain and Latin America and the opportunities were great, which also helped you get closer to your now employer, I believe. And that's sort of why you transitioned in-house. 
So let's take a moment then to talk about, you know, adapting to your new rules in-house, what led to the change and how it felt in the early days when you first sort of jumped from being a time recording fee earner, to the one where you make the decisions and you know the buck stops with you. So who wants to take that one first?

Isa
(12:49)
I can start, so yeah. Well, I can start say that being a private practice like Kennedys was extremely important to my career. You know, is where I had the opportunity to work on very complex matters and in a law firm you have to deep dive into the, in the case, you know, you need to understand the whole case. You need to do a lot of search about the case and, and everything that could impact this case. So this was great. It's not like in the private, in the in-house position, know, the in-house position, you need to manage a lot of things that are happening at the same time. You need to manage regulatory issues. You need to manage, maybe support the claims department and you need to support the underwriters when they need to, you know, to have a contract, a different clause. And you need to support the company, what the company is planning to the future. So you need to focus on the budget, you need to focus on what the company wants for the future and review contracts, having in mind what is the expectations of the company. 
So it's very different, but I would say that the in-house position, the both in-house position that I had after Kennedys, it was possible to develop a good job because I had candidates before, so I was shaped by candidates, like how to analyze a case, how to deal with a complex matter, how to treat the clients, how to communicate difficult situations to a client. this was great, but it's different. The in-house, you need to manage many things at the same time, and also take into consideration the internal policies of the company. So I think it's very different in that sense.

Anna
(14:38)
Totally. It's a big juggle, isn't it, in terms of, I remember when I was in house, I mean, you're managing so many different things at once. It'll be new things coming through the door that you don't expect, that there's no template for, and no one's looked at it before. And instead of turning to your next door neighbour in the next office to say, how do we do this? You will buy yourself a lot of the time.

Isadora
(15:01)
And also like my background was mailing financial lines, as you know, and in an in-house position, you need to expand that. need to, you know, we cannot be focusing one single line of business, at least in my experience. So you need to expand that and try to understand all the line of business and how things work. it's more, yeah, so you have to manage it.

Anna
(15:24)
It is. It's more holistic, isn't it? I think that you're known to be the lawyer for the company or the insurer, whomever your employer is. And for those who are not lawyers, they assume, I think, that lawyers know everything, which is wonderful, but not true. And we'll touch on that a little bit later about some of the limitations of practicing law in these roles and overseas. Before we do that, Juan, would you share with us a little bit about your transition from so Kennedys Madrid, the LATAM desk, and then into your now GC role and how it was in the early days.

Juan
(16:00)
Yes. I think the first thing that I learned having this change, being on the other side that I haven't been, is basically it reinforced my view about the legal profession, to be honest. And I think the legal profession, and this might sound obvious, it's a services industry. And as a services industry, you are to serve, to serve your clients being internal clients or external clients. That is how you need to adapt and to find the best way to help your clients. You are providing a services. But I think the main line here is you start providing services like in a different way. And I think a good way to being like a working and in-house is to identify which matters are going to the law firms and which matters can be served internally by the internal legal teams. 
But what I was saying about the services industry is that it's really interesting because when you are in the general counsel, you start to see how you could improve your work in the law firm and when you're in the law firm, it's really important to know what the company wants and what the company is looking for. So it's just like this change of mentality, which is really interesting. It's really interesting because I don't know if I'm going to go back to law firm. That's time will tell. Who knows? But what I can tell you right now is if I go back to a law firm, my experience being a general counsel, it's going to help a lot regarding the type of answers my client would like for me to give him. And the same thing, me as a general counsel, I know what are the type of answers I have to provide internally to the company because I know due to the experience and the way I practice law from a law firm, from the law firm perspective. 
So I think it's been like really interesting, like seeing the other way, around being the client is, it was a position that I've never been before. So that's on the service side, but at the same time, and I think that's the most valuable input my practice in law firm has helped my general counsel practices, you're servicing an internal client. So have the same service standards you will have in a law firm for your external clients, have it for your internal clients.

Anna
(18:29)
Yeah, it brings a very different perspective to our work, I think. And I have had the fortunate experience of going from private practice to an in-house role. And I was in-house for about four or five years. And what I, the experience that I learned in-house was absolutely fundamental to what I then took back when I came back to private practice. Because as you said, you understand more from the true experience how it is to receive the legal advice, like how things could have been delivered differently to make your life as the in house counsel easier to then translate that for your stakeholders or the way that communications are handled, the speed at which we do things and understanding the pressures of being in-house I think is so useful for us then when we do if we do transition back and we also do a lot on boomerangs Juan and you're always welcome back. It's something that we do care much about is following our alumni talent and finding opportunities for alumni to come back. 
And one of the things that you've mentioned there is the value of what our alumni go on to do, whatever the next step in their journey is, they bring that experience to their next role, whether it's a return to Kennedys as a boomerang or maybe it's to another company or to another insurer, whoever has the benefit of that experience, they definitely will receive the different perspective that that legal practice has brought for sure.
And so, definitely agree with all those comments. And a couple of points that you each have touched on and Isa, you went quite far down into this route, but I'd like to explore this area a bit more, which is, you know, coming to terms with some of the challenges of moving to a different jurisdiction and what the limitations are on that, you know, so anything that you've found to be difficult that perhaps maybe your employer or the world at large does not understand about your practice that is useful when it comes to jurisdictional practice as a lawyer. If you want to have a shot at giving us a perspective on that.

Isa
(20:34)
Well, I think it's challenge that we're not, it's not always that we are able to give a firm answer to a matter in a specific jurisdiction. So I think part of my position, this position that I am right now and the previous one, the in-house previous one is to build up a network of lawyers that I trust. So then you need to manage, doesn't mean that I will give I would have experience in all legal systems and all regulations, all laws. So I need to rely on external lawyers. I think this is the, sometimes it's frustrating for some colleagues that they expect me to answer something that I have no idea. So I can research it. I think legal research is a very important task that we need to have ability to deal with it.

Sometimes you need to rely on external counsel like you guys, I still in touch with former colleagues. yeah, I think make them to understand there is no way to understand everything to be an expert in every single jurisdiction, every single law, every single regulation. So it's more like to manage this expectation. So I think this is the most important thing I would say, it's better than giving a wrong advice.

Anna
(22:04)
100%. Yeah, because there are limitations to our jurisdictional practice as lawyers and we are all regulated in what we do, so we have to be mindful of that, and as you said, I don't think everyone always understands the limitations on us. So Juan maybe you want to speak about that too, because I know that you've worked in many different jurisdictions and M&A transactions, so it must have come up a few times.

Juan
(22:27)
Yes, this is a really sensitive issue and really important one. International legal practice, and I totally agree with Isadora, is international legal practices. You need to learn how to manage legal resources worldwide. You are not the one to provide certain legal advice regarding certain jurisdictions. Especially, for example, if you work for companies that have positions in many, many countries in order for you to get the legal assurances you need. If you know which type of practitioner you need in the place where you're having, it's okay not to know. In a law firm, nobody is going to, and this is like a party, nobody's going to pay for a memo that says, I don't know, sign, no. So that's something that you would talk internally because nobody knows everything. And in an issue as complex as law where everything, there are rightish answers, because everything could be analyze from a different perspective, you know, you have that internal sparing inside the law firm, and that's really useful because that's going to provide a better advice because it has been reviewed by different point of views, by different lawyers. 
So this is like this internally, but at the end, at a law firm, you need to come up with a question. Here, like in the general counsel, well, your answer is going to be, I don't know, but let's find out the best way to get this question answer, this is like a regulated practice. So we cannot advise on jurisdictions in which we are not qualified. And that makes basically this global practice more like a good administrator of legal resources in the way I see it.

Isadora
(24:16)
I also think like you don't know, but you should be able to understand what is the question. You should be able to have information to discuss with external lawyers. So I think this is also part of the job, to collect information, to gather information, to be able to discuss the issue with external lawyer, not just pass to the external lawyer, but to understand what you are discussing. This is part of the job. You don't know, but you need to be able to

Anna
(24:45)
It's issue spotting, I suppose, isn't it? And for an in house council, that is absolutely key. And then knowing, I don't know if you either, if you ever saw Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Well, one of those game shows that is very popular and they have the phone a friend. It's about spot the issue and phone a friend.
And so, you know, that's really why I think Kennedys certainly over the years that it's been growing and developing and the teams have become more global and collaborative and international. We now know who to call within each of our jurisdictions, practice areas and whatnot. And for anyone who's, you know, thinking about joining our alumni network, please do use that connection because this is about making connections in the network, knowing who to call. It's about getting to know each other and how we can support each other in each of our roles. And definitely, certainly my practice at Kennedys has always been about knowing who to call to help resolve whatever the question. 
So I think the idea is to provide that legal advice collaboratively and with the support of others. And that's really what the global practice, I think for you and for us, it has become about. And a curious question really, because I know you work looking at different markets. You've got the LATAM market, the EMEA market, the UK market. Maybe you work in the US market. Do you notice that there's a different set of expectations or communication styles across the regions? Any anecdotes or funny ideas that you can share with us because I'm sure you've had some good experiences on that front.

Isadora
(26:27)
Yeah, I see a lot very different. I think, for example, Mike, when I need a very specific things for, for example, cyber, know, like new products that are not in the market for many, many, many years. And my colleagues in the US, colleagues that I will contact to discuss new clauses, new wordings, or new ideas for products that are not too old in the market. So London is very well developed. So here in Spain, still have some products that are still in inception stage. So we need to develop better for like to be like the US or the UK. So yeah, definitely it's very different. And also like for Latin America, when I was focusing on Latin America, it's like you can see very different things. Like for example, D&O is a product that everyone in Brazil was talking about, everyone's aware of it, every single company wants to buy it, but maybe not crime, maybe not BBB. So, you know, it's very different, like how the country, the local market will accept a product. So it's very different from one country to another. 

Anna
(27:43)
And each one, as you said, is at different stages and with different priorities. I guess being in High Council and having worked globally, you start to understand where those pressures are and where the opportunities are. Juan, would you like to have a shot at that sort of thought on cross border and which, you know, regions differ and how?

Juan
(28:05)
There are many things in common, but there are many things that make us different from the different regions. So for example, you can find some similarities in the LATAM region, like, okay, yours like this. But then you go and when you do like a deep dive, different countries, different cultures, different way of seeing life, different way of working as well. So that's that. So it's not like homogenic, as you would think, like for example, LATAM.
There are certain subtleties that can make a difference. We Latinos have a way of communicating. We Latinos have a way of expressing ourselves that I might tend to say it's more like on the sweet side, like lot of adjectives, perhaps if there is like confidence, a lot of diminutive, like, you please do me that this teeny bitty favor? So it's like, and like that, and then you get like to other cultures, like for example, like European culture or the US culture where they're really straightforward. And you get this cultural shock like, are they mad at me? Did my work wasn't that good? Because I was used to on the pleasantries of the Latin American, Spanish language that right here you don't have. It's really straightforward. And you just need to adapt. You did nothing wrong. It's just basically they told you what they wanted to communicate and that's it. And that's the end of the line, there are no underlinings there. It's not straightforward, X, Y, Z. That's the way it is. 
And then you need to put yourself in that mentality to answer to this, to the different peoples where you're having. And I think that's also like a very interesting thing about a global legal practice is that you become in a sense, like a cultural translator. Because when you're dealing, if I'm dealing with Latin American, and my client is from Europe or from the US, and I think that's the beauty of this, is the beauty of this is you learn to have knowledge of different cultures, which allows you to open your mind, to see that there are different ways of seeing the world, of expressing yourself, of understanding the law which is now let's not get so with areas there, but it's a different way of understanding and practicing law, which is really interesting to see if we're creating, I don't know, a new insurance problem, let's try to create this, communicating to cultures that could be different and that they see life and they see the world and they see the law differently as well. So I think that's really interesting.

Anna
(30:54)
To me, it's one of the best aspects of working cross-border and internationally is understanding all those different nuances and cultures. And a few years ago, someone recommended a book to me, it's called The Culture Map by Erin Mayer. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it talks about, you know, if you were to use a simple message when talking to someone, how in different parts of the world, the message would be translated completely differently, even though you use exactly the same words.
And that is very true in how we conduct ourselves in business and all the rest of the interactions that we have. And it's just being aware and not taking those reactions personally. Because as you said, it's a culture thing. 
Moving away from our legal practice for a moment, what do you enjoy most on a personal level about living in Spain? I mean, you're in two wonderful cities. I think Barcelona is one of my favourites because I love Antonio Gaudi and tapas. But Madrid has beautiful museums, parks, amazing places to go. What do you both enjoy most about your move overseas?

Isadora
(32:00)
Well, think, well, I miss London a lot. I love London, but Barcelona is a smaller city, so you can do everything in 25 minutes. It's very easy. You don't need to the tube all the time. Well, the weather is much better than in London, but yeah, there are a lot of things that I miss in London, like the cultural things, I think London is one of the best cities in the world. Yeah, if you want to go to a very nice cinema, so you can find in London. If you want to go to a theatre, so whatever you want to do, you find in London.

Anna
(32:43)
It is a beautiful and something for everyone. I remember trying to convince you to come and spend time in Miami. She was definitely London all the way.

Isadora
(32:50)
I think I still like a Londoner, so with all respect, but I love Barcelona as well. So the weather, like it's a smaller city, you can do whatever you want, walking, you know, but yeah, it's an easy life, I would say, and the food is much better. Moving abroad is amazing because you have, you know, you understand that your country is like just a small place in the world, and then you have so many things to learn. Like, you know, you open your mind. I think I'm a very different person than I was when I was living in Brazil. So I think it's very important. If someone asked me if they should move to another country, I will always say, yes, it's not easy. You know, you need to deal with bureaucracies. You need to deal with a lot of things, but I think it's great to open your mind and to not realize that you are very small in this in this world. So I think it is great. Yeah.

Anna
(33:50)
Great. Juan, how about you? What do you most enjoy about living abroad?

Juan
(33:56)
I love Madrid basically because public transport is amazing. So you can get anywhere in the city because it's really well connected by bus or by metro. I think it's the cultural world around Madrid is amazing.

Anna
(34:15)
I think you said a lot of very valuable points there, and I think it comes down to as well, get out of your comfort zone, get out into the world if you can, and if there's an opportunity to try living somewhere else. It's not easy, as you said, but certainly it presents so many new opportunities. I love to travel, to live abroad, and living is very different from traveling. But it has definitely been very healthy in my life to get out of my comfort zone and to experience new things and learn new perspectives and see things from a different angle. So yeah, I think what you're each doing is fascinating and you know, really delighted to hear that you're enjoying it so much. 
And I think I know the answer to this question, but I originally had said beach or city life, but I'm going to throw in mountain as well. Are you a beach, a mountain or a city person? I think I know the answer to both yours. From San Paolo to London, there's definitely a strong city aspect there. And for you, Juan?

Juan
(35:25)
I love cities because I've been living in hectic cities, big aggressive cities, but I love it. Bogota is an acquired taste, but I love it. So I think like to work and to live on a regular day basis, city, retirement in the mountain.Anna
(35:42)
Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, and I'm sure you miss the mountains around Bogota.

Juan
(35:46)
A lot, lot. Bogotá is surrounded by beautiful green mountains. And I think that's an aspect that goes with this global practice and moving abroad. I think the downside is there's a lot of nostalgia associated to this. So you're leaving the place you lived all your life, you build strong relationships. So yeah, well, my mom is in Bogotá, so I have some nostalgia over there. There is no absolute happiness in life. So you just take it how it comes. But you have nostalgia of your hometown.

Anna
(36:27)
Yep. But if you were, now that you are both where you're at, if you were to give someone your younger self advice about moving abroad or taking a leap in house, like if you can give one piece of advice that you think you wish you had known then that, you know, that you now believe to be really valid, what would it be?
Isadora
(36:50)
Well, good question. So, professional-wise, would say focus, I think I'm repeating myself, I learned how important it is to understand the tools and know to conduct proper research of all the things that you are doing. So, professional-wise, I think is one of the most important things that I do every single day. So, you need to focus on, you know, we need to use AI, you need to use every single tool that you have to conduct a proper research. I think, and then you will be able to discuss the issues that you have. So I think this is the main thing that I will say. And I was really surprised when I was studying in London, how they value legal research. know, it was very different from the university that I study in Brazil. I think.

Anna
(37:48)
I'm just wondering if that's a common law versus civil law type thing as well and understanding how those two systems are different. Yeah, it's very valuable.

Isadora
(37:59)
I this is one of the things that I would tell myself, like, no, it's something that I need to focus, I need to use a lot. So now I'm confident that I can use it, but it was a long time to understand that.

Anna
(38:14)
That's great advice. And how about you, Juan? What would you say? And I could be forward thinking too, if there's something that you think that we all need to be on the lookout for, that we need to upskill in, that you would recommend that the younger generation focus on, what would that be?

Juan 
(38:34)
Personally, it's okay not to know. It's your job to research and to find an answer. It's okay. You don't need to. I remember that just on a personal note, I'm sorry if I'm taking time. I remember when I entered uni, like, well, you know, this is big, like kind of a big deal and everything. And then one teacher on the final year said, said like a phrase that, that still sticks with me. And he said, when you go into the private practice, you realize that you have no clue about law. And then, but rest assured that the other people that are with you, they also do not have a clue about law. So I think it's good not to know. I think we put a lot of pressure in needing the, in having the right answers. And I think I agree with Isadora. It's the important thing is asking the right questions. So I think that's really valuable.

Isadora
(39:33)
And I think, Anna, if you allow me to give another very basic advice. I always, always use my internal colleagues. Always. I always talk to them. Doesn't matter if I don't know them in person. So I always contact them. I always ask to contact them. I always ask questions to my colleagues, especially the senior ones. So I was doing it at Kennedys. I continue to do it. It's very valuable when you are in an international law firm or international company to use your colleagues in a good way. to ask them to engage to discussions with them. So I think it's very, very important. 
You learn a lot, especially like other jurisdictions, if you are allowed to contact them. So I think it's a great thing to do and I continue to do it. So I always research in games and people. And I always send messages saying like, I need to ask you something. So I always, I'm never afraid to contact colleagues, never. So it's very important.

Anna
(40:34)
Yeah. And I agree. And as you said, and going full circle is a back to, you know, the London market in particular is a people business. It's a connection. It's a relationship and the language, the large language models are not going to be able to do what we as human beings can do together, which is really valuable. So again, I think, you know, one of the common themes that we've heard today is just the importance of knowing who to phone, who to keep in touch with, and please do that. And please never be afraid to reach out to anybody at Kennedys or anyone in the network. And, you know, we'll figure out the solution so that no one ever gets the report that says I don't know. And I can guarantee it will be better than whatever will feed through an AI system. So yeah, that's great.
One last question, which is something I always like to ask, and I don't know what your answer will be, so one word to describe Kennedys?

Isadora
(41:30)
Well, for me, it's global network for sure. Yeah.

Anna
(41:34)
Brilliant, thank you.

Juan
(41:35)
I have the same as Isadora, like on a professional legal practice, global, international, on a personal note, transformative. It's nice. It's been transformative for me. It has allowed me to reach the places I wanted to be. Yeah. So for me, that's on a personal level.

Anna
(41:54)
That's great. I love both those words. I think global comes up routinely and that's wonderful. And that's certainly the goal to be seen and to be able to support anyone globally, whoever needs our advice. But the transformative, I really love too. And I think that like I've known you obviously throughout your careers and I've seen what you've gone on to do and we've maintained our connection. And it has been really wonderful to see all the different career paths you've taken and how you have transformed along the way.
You've also helped others to do that as well and, you know, for example, Juan, I know there are people in the CoCo team in Latin America that learned so much from you and are still flourishing there at Kennedys. And it's wonderful to see how we each impact each other's roles. So, you know, thank you so much. 
And I think on that, I'm going to wrap up and say thank you Juan and Isa. It's been really fascinating to hear you talk about your journeys and it serves as such a powerful reminder that your career does not have to follow a straight line or a location, it just has to keep moving forward. Whilst there may sometimes be obstacles in the road, and we've talked quite a bit about those, the benefit of taking a leap of faith outweighs them, and awareness and knowing who to call can really make a difference. That is why I'm delighted that we can continue to support you in your roles as alumni of the firm. And as I like to say, once Kennedys, always Kennedys.
If today's conversation sparks something for you, whether you're considering a move abroad, a shift in sector or a move in-house as a general counsel, or just want to stay connected, please join the Kennedys Alumni Network. It's a space to reconnect with peers, share opportunities and keep learning from the experiences that cross borders and industries have, like the ones we've discussed today in this episode.
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